Lies the Diet & Fitness Industry Told You: Part 1 | Will Dove and Dr. Mark Trozzi

February 4, 2023

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Will Dove is not just a freedom fighter and independent journalist. In 2016, Will endured treatment for stage 4 throat cancer. Mark interviews Will on his ‘journey to hell and back’, his lifelong dedication to fitness and a healthy diet, and how those disciplines enabled him to be, in the words of Will’s oncologist, ‘in the top 1% for recovery’.

Will also reveals many of the lies we are all being told by the diet and fitness industry. Will took up part time fitness modelling at the age of 45, and continued until age 52. While he admits he is not a doctor, a nutritionist, or even a personal trainer, his lifelong commitment to learning about the real benefits of exercise, and how the foods we put in our bodies affect us, allows him to bypass a lot of the complicated ‘calorie-counting, carbs-watching’ strategies and distill a healthy diet down to a few simple rules anyone can follow.

Dr. Trozzi 00:07
Well, hello friends, Dr. Mark Trozzi here, following up on a promise that I made New Year’s Eve, which was though we still are deeply in the COVID, war and everything that goes along with it. But we also recognize that with the complete compromise of the medical institutions, that if there’s one thing that we’re all lacking, and people are lacking was access to good, real, honest information about health, and resolving disease. So you, for sure you recognize the handsome friend of mine before you Iron Will Dove. You know him like I do as one of the real heroes of journalism and investigative journalism since the beginning of the COVID War. And he’s interviewed myself, many of the scientists, and legal experts and activists and other people involved in the struggle for really for the future mankind. But, you know, something that I don’t imagine, you know, when I found out it was really, my jaw dropped Will, when you told me, because you know, it’s very, it’s very easy to see, well, even, even when you’re in your suit and tie, and vest, you are a very, very muscular and fit human being. And you’re 57 years old. So it’s not, you’re not a kid, you’ve been through a lot and maintain this, the amazing health that you have. But, but here’s the shocker, folks. Six years ago, Iron Will had stage four throat cancer, I repeat, Iron Will had stage four throat cancer six years ago. So not only is our Will a survivor, he’s gone way beyond survival, and maintains a level of health and fitness that is far above the normal. So it’s for that reason that we’re not talking about COVID today. Today, I really want to be the amateur journalist talking to a professional journalist. But Will, I want to thank you for taking this time. And the purpose of this interview is for my audience, to get a chance to benefit from your knowledge and your experience and your insights on everything from surviving cancer, to not only surviving but thriving and being an incredibly fit human being.

Will Dove 02:43
Well, it’s a pleasure to be here, Mark, I’m really was looking forward to this interview because this is something I don’t get to talk about much other than when I do interview experts on the subject of nutrition. But it is incredibly important. You know, the globalists were able to frighten people into locking down and frighten people into wearing masks and frighten people into taking the shots because they were told there’s this horrible, dangerous disease out there. Now, at this point in time, we both know that that’s an utter lie. That, you know, COVID-19 was never anything more than a minor flu. But I had two advantages going when they first announced it. First, I knew right from the get go that it was BS. And I knew that because I knew a little known medical fact. And I’m not even sure if this is anything official. But I call it the Inverse Law of Viruses. And what it means is that the – typically the longer the incubation period of a virus, the less virulent the virus is. And so one of the news reports I heard very early on came right out and said that COVID-19 had a longer incubation period than the seasonal flu did. And it’s okay, so therefore, it’s going to be less virulent than seasonal flu, which is exactly what it has proven to be if you look at any of the real statistics. So I could understand what all the fuss was about. Of course, now we know. But even if it had been a dangerous disease, because I have looked after myself my whole life because I have been a fitness and exercise nut it wouldn’t have worried me because honestly, if something came along that was nasty enough that it was going to kill me. Well, by then everyone I love would be dead anyway, so I wouldn’t care. And that’s an important message for people is that we’ve become so reliant upon medicine to, you know, people go to their doctor, basically wanting the doctor to give them a pill or a shot that’s going to make them feel better. Well, that’s not health care, that’s sick care. Health care is preventative. And by looking after ourselves, by eating a healthy diet by getting regular exercise, we become extremely resilient. And that ties back into my throat cancer and how I was able to get through that treatment and recover as well as I have.

Dr. Trozzi 05:01
Now Will, you’ve been a very fit person your whole life. And I know like some people when I first saw some of your pictures, that’s a professional fitness model, I thought, oh my gosh, Mr. Universe. And maybe if you don’t mind, I mean, your – thanks for wearing a t shirt today, because this is a lot of the credibility, is the fact that you are very fit, you know, that’s a credential that you truly wear on your sleeve. You have you showed me some photos, and I was hoping you just share some photos with us just to kind of get a perspective of who we’re talking with. We know you as a journalist, we know you as a truth teller. But you have this whole other life as an extremely fit person and actually a professional fitness model. Can you maybe just give us a background? Can we have a look and look at some of the photos of you in your career as a fitness model?

Will Dove 05:59
Absolutely. And I think that just before I do that, really what we’re doing here, folks, is we’re establishing credentials. You all know that Dr. Trozzi is an ER physician with 25 years of experience, but who the heck am I? I’m a freedom fighter. I’m an independent journalist. I’m not a doctor, I’m not a nutritionist. I’m not even a personal trainer. I’ve never competed in bodybuilding competitions. So why in the world should you listen to me. So as a matter of establishing credentials, as Mark has asked, I’m gonna go ahead and share my screen, I’m going to show you some shots. And I’ll talk to them somewhat as we’re looking at them. Okay, so that I did do yes, as Mark said, I did fitness modeling on the side for quite a number of years. But I think the interesting story about me is, this isn’t something I did in my 20s, I started fitness modeling at 45. And I did my last shoot when I was 52, two years after I had cancer. So this is what you’re seeing right now is just a selection of those images, I got to work with a lot of very, very talented people, digital artists, the Superman one, that was painted by a young artist named Leanne Mosley, who what she did is she would take live models, and she would paint them to look like two dimensional comic book characters. And her art was so popular that she traveled to England and Germany and Japan to do demonstrations. And I had the privilege to be one of her early models. So I got to work, as I said, with a lot of very, very talented people. Sorry, I just have to open my window here. And so now I’m going to show you this is from a fitness shoot that I did, just prior to going into cancer treatments and what we’ll talk about my cancer in a bit, but let’s just go through this right now, because as I said, we’re establishing credentials of why the heck should you listen to me? So that was 195 pounds there. That picture I’m about 5% body fat. And that was after preparing for a shoot. And like I said, we’re gonna talk about folks because that what you see there, that’s not sustainable. It’s not realistic, but it looks cool. Here’s a couple of shots from after the one on the left, that was six months post treatment. I’m also a karate black belt, which is why you’re seeing that picture like that. And I know it’s terribly tough for you folks to see it. But I look at that picture. And I can see I’m still 20 pounds light there. And then the picture on the right, that was two years post treatments. Once again, working with some very talented digital artists, the Bombelkie brothers, they specialize in doing fitness photography, and then turning it into digital art. And I was also lucky to be one of their early models. Those guys are now working for one of the biggest fitness magazines in the world. Now, sometimes I get this question from people, did you really have cancer? So here’s the proof. In 2016. I also had the honor to be the national spokesperson for the Canadian Cancer Society and I’m going to play you this clip from global news. Calgary man understands the fight against HPV and the audio. The beginning is a little wonky, but it’ll come back

reporter 09:00
…to his recovery and he shares his story with us tonight….Real food and hoping he can soon truly enjoy it. I have almost no sense of taste, I have extreme dry mouth. I have sensitivity on my teeth. Will Dove is recovering from stage four throat cancer caused by the Human Papilloma Virus or HPV for short. A shocking diagnosis for the athlete and gym lover.

Will Dove 09:28
Somewhere, 20 plus years ago, I would have been infected. There is a misconception out there that only girls are susceptible to HPV cancer, lots and lots of men get HPV cancer. It’s a journey to hell and back. I am gonna pause it right there and explain what you’re seeing. With radiation treatment, it has to be accurate to within three millimeters. And so that mesh that you see over my face, they had to customize it for me, and it’s actually bolted to the table that I’m laying on. So +I can’t move my head. And I’m going to tell you a bit of a story about that later on. But I just wanted to explain what you’re seeing there. You are given radiation and chemotherapy at the same time I lost 30 pounds in five weeks, I still have days when I’m very depressed, I sit here in front of you looking, I know fairly fit and recovered. And yet, there is a one in six chance that I will be dead two to three years from now, from HPV cancer. And if it comes back, there will be little or nothing the doctors can do.

reporter 10:38
But Dove can do something for his children, his son and daughter have both been vaccinated against HPV. There are still a number of provinces in Canada that do not provide vaccinations for boys.

Will Dove 10:51
I am gonna stop it there again and the reason I’m gonna stop it is because I wish I had stopped it a frame sooner. But I don’t know of any way to go back. You know, I’m sitting there saying “I look recovered and healthy”. And now I look back at that and I look at that, and I think I looked like crap. So how sick did I have to be that I felt that by the time I did this interview, a few months after at the end of my treatment that I really felt like I was doing better, I wasn’t. I looked like total crap. So here was the progress of my weight loss going through treatment. So there’s that first picture again, that was taken as a modeling fitness modeling shoot just prior to starting treatment. And there you see day 14, day 28. I mean, that’s, that’s just four weeks, and I had lost 30 pounds. And you can see the weight’s just draining off of me. And you can see the radiation burns around my throat there. That right there is the feeding tube that they put into my nose down into my stomach because I could not eat at all. By the time the nausea from the chemotherapy wore off, my throat was so burned from the radiation that I couldn’t swallow water and the burns that you’re seeing on the outside, that’s nothing compared to how it was burned on the inside. I was on 80 milligrams a day of morphine, just to handle the pain. So it’s it is, as I said in that interview, it’s a journey to hell and back. It is the harshest cancer treatment there is. And they tell you that when you get your diagnosis. So that was the first thing that my oncologist said to me said, Will, there’s certainly cancers with lower survival odds, but there’s nothing where the treatment is harsher. And to tell you a little bit more of a story about that I happened to be good friends at a time with a guy who worked in the radiation clinic at the Tom Baker Cancer Center in Calgary. He wasn’t my radiation tech. He was a guy I knew from the gym. I’d known him for years. And we got to be very good buddies. And prior to my treatment, we went for a beer and you know, we were very close friends. We could talk about anything. And so he was very honest. He looked at me said, Will, I’ve been treating cancer for 15 years. And if I ever got cancer, the one I would least want is what you have. Because I’ve seen what the treatment does to people. And it’s horrific. Horrific, what it does. That chemotherapy we’re talking about, the chemo they gave me, there’s about 100 different chemo drugs. They gave me cisplatin. Cisplatin is the nastiest of them. It is so nasty, that the treatment regimen calls for three rounds three weeks apart, but 50% of people don’t get the third round, because it might kill them. That’s how harsh it is. So also as a side note of interest, I am not the first person in my family to have cancer. Six years prior, my wife had cancer. She had stage one breast cancer and when her hair started to fall out from the chemo, we both went and had our head shaved. So she went through her own journey through hell, going through chemo and radiation. And here’s why I want to throw in a little message of hope, especially for you ladies, if there’s anybody out there watching who’s going through cancer, and it’s especially hard on women. Because yeah, your hair is gonna come out in clumps, and you’re gonna feel like crap, and you gonna feel like you look like crap. So here is a photo shoot that I did with my wife while she was going through treatment and underneath those hats, she’s bald. Remember, your cancer, it’s not you, okay? You are not your cancer, you’re still you, and you’re still beautiful. And you will recover. And you’re not going to feel like crap forever. So remember that. So I want to finish up with this last couple of slides that are on the right. That’s once again that one from just before treatment, I was 50 years old, the one on the left. I’m not a selfie person, but knowing that I was going to do this interview this discussion with Mark. I took that at the gym yesterday. So that’s me now 57 And that is sustainable. And I want to talk about that. It’s very important to understand this that the fitness industry is feeding you a lie. When you see guys that look like that on the magazine covers, well, I looked like that for about three hours. If I wanted to go from what you see on the left right now, to this, it would take two to three months of hitting the gym six to 10 times a week. And some people say, Well, how do you do that? Well, what you do is you go twice a day, an extremely restrictive diet, and three days of dehydrating prior to the shoot. So if I kept doing what I did to look like that in that picture, within a few days, I would be dead. It’s a lie. It’s an impossible standard. So don’t believe it. Don’t believe the lie. What you see on the left, that is sustainable. I’m 57 years old. That’s pretty much what I look like all the time. But here’s the other important thing. Yes, when I started out training at the age of 16, it was about vanity, you know, I was a skinny little kid, I didn’t want to be a skinny little kid, I wanted to be Arnold Schwarzenegger. So you know, I hit the gym. And it was very much about vanity then. But it hasn’t been about that for a long time. It’s about how I feel. It’s about having high energy levels. It’s about being resilient. I don’t remember what the current stats are, I think it’s something like people that at 55, the average Canadian on three different medications. I’m not on any medications, my joints don’t hurt, I almost never get sick. I’m strong and resilient. And I’m just going to give a little demonstration of that. This, also my daughter shot this at the gym yesterday. What you’re seeing there, that’s called a front lever, very few people can do that. And then these are just a pike sits lat pull up. And I’m going to do about 10 reps here. Keeping in mind that I weigh 185. So that’s a fair bit of weight to remove. So hopefully, I have established credentials. And that’s, you know, everything that I know it comes from a lifetime of experience. And I want to just talk briefly about where my own journey started into learning about nutrition, especially and the importance of it. I mentioned that I started training at 16. And I was a scrawny little kid, I was 140 pounds. And so after nine years of diligently working out at the age of 25, I weighed 140 pounds. I had worked out for nine years, and I gained nothing. I’d gotten stronger, but I hadn’t gained any weight. And that all changed when I moved, and I ended up going to a different gym. And I had been at that gym for about three weeks when the manager of the gym who was himself impressively Schwarzenegger-ized. he very kindly took me to one side and he said, I’ve been watching your train. He said you train really hard, but you’re not gaining anything. And then he said four words that literally changed my life. And in the course of this discussion, hopefully you’re going to come to understand why. And those first four words were What Are You Eating? It had never occurred to me that diet had anything to do with it. And he could tell from the look on my face, I just looked puzzled. And he said, Will, if your body needs 2000 calories a day just to function, and you only eat 2000 calories a day, what’s leftover to build muscle with? Nine years of obstinacy, and finally the light went on. And I increased my diet to 4000 calories a day. In the next six weeks, I gained 11 pounds. I gained weight so fast. The same guy asked me if I was using steroids. And for the record, folks, I have never used steroids. You don’t need them. So you know that that whole What Are You Eating thing? Because that led to a, yes, a lifelong pursuit of understanding food and what it does in our body. And so yeah, I finally learned that I needed the calories. So I started to put on weight. I think by the age of 28, I was up to 185 pounds. But that kept going I became what’s known in the gym as a mass monger to you know, for a mass monger, mass is happiness or the bigger and bigger you are, the happier you are. And so by my late 30s I was 220 pounds. And I looked into the mirror and sure I was strong, I was bench pressing 400 pounds, but I looked in the mirror one day and I realized I’m fat. That’s not what I went to the gym to do. And so I went you know, I saw the one of the really good trainers at the gym who did a full body fat test on me. And discovered I was 19% body fat. So I had no definition at all. But I had that knowledge. Oh, it’s what I’m eating. And so I started to educate myself on how to eat to keep the muscle and lose the fat. And that’s where you’re seeing that at the age of 45, I started fitness modeling, because I’d finally learned. I was back down to 185 pounds. But I was still bench pressing 400 because I didn’t lose the muscle, I just lost the fat. And so it’s all about diet. And that’s, I think before just tossing back to you Mark, it’s really fortuitous that we’re doing this interview in January because I’ve been in gyms for 40 years. And it’s that time of year when a whole bunch of new people show up. And by the end of March, 99% of them will have quit. But you know what? I don’t blame them. If I was them, I’d quit too. Why would any sane person continue to do something that’s inconvenient, uncomfortable and isn’t working? Well, the reason it’s not working, is because the fitness industry has sold them a false bill of goods on what to expect from the gym. In most cases, people go to the gym to lose weight, because they’ve been told that you have to work out to lose weight. Utter bunk, total crap. Multiple studies have shown that exercise is virtually useless for weight loss. Weight loss is diet. Now there’s plenty of reasons to work out and plenty of reasons to work out with resistance training, whether it be weights or body weight, or whatever. But weight loss is not one of them. It doesn’t work for that. And so the fitness industry lures people in with this idea that if they go to the gym, and they get on the treadmill for half an hour a day, they’re going to lose the weight, and it doesn’t happen. And so quite rationally, after a few months of pointless workouts that aren’t doing anything for them, they quit. But now they’ve got this two year subscription with the gym, they’re going to have to pay for every month.

Dr. Trozzi 21:30
You know, I can imagine, Will, two kinds of motivation for us watching this interview. And for me, you know, getting to be, you know, Front Row, front row seat. I mean, I pretty much everybody wants to have a lean, muscular, Strong Body, pretty much everybody wants to feel good, and look good. Pretty much everybody wants to be resistant or resilient to disease, and live a long life. And you’ve tapped into all those things, through really, I mean, never mind a four year degree, you’ve been a lifelong study and practice and that’s worth more than, you know, somebody says, Well, I got a degree on nutrition, not to knock people that degree in nutrition. So for all of us, there’s, there’s, there’s a lot of reasons for us to go, Hey, let’s pick Iron Will Dove’s mind today and learn what we can apply to our life. And then I can imagine, especially now following the rollout of the jabs, which I’m trying to stay off the subject a little bit today. But we got a lot of cancer in the world now. I mean, you know, cancer rates have skyrocketed, unfortunately for the people coerced into the genetic spike protein making injection. So as much as all of us are wide-eyed, I think there’s a bunch of us who may have an active diagnosis of cancer right now may even have a stage three or may even have a stage four cancer or may know someone you know, in my family, we have a young, somewhat lightly mentally handicapped young person in our, in our extended family who, who was coerced into the job for – to get a job and now has multiple tumors growing at 30 years old. So whether it’s people who may be dealing with cancer, or people who know someone’s dealing with cancer. So we kind of want to tap in, tap into you, Will, if you can take the time, but on both subjects, like all of us being healthy, strong, resilient, living a long life. And then I guess the other subject is you know, surviving such a, such an intense treatment for such a serious medical condition, and not just surviving, but bouncing back like the man that we see before us. So I kind of like to open it, you know, do we want to start on the general subject or the specific subject? You mentioned nutrition, for instance, and I think this is a really underestimated thing. A lot of people go, Well, you know, I’m going to eat healthy and don’t even know what does it mean to eat healthy. There’s, can you can you bring us to some of the initial handholds on the quest for great health.

Will Dove 24:34
Absolutely. And folks here to tell you the formula for being fit, strong and healthy in my estimation, it’s 70% nutrition, it’s 20% exercise and a 10% proper rest. A lot of people out there I mean, honestly, if you could be doing all the other things right. And if you’re sleeping four hours a night, don’t expect results, because you’re not letting your body rest. So that’s an important part. But let’s talk about nutrition. Most people today, thankfully, now understand that dietary fat does not make you fat, sugar makes you fat. So we’re not going to harp on that for too long. Other than to mention this: refined grains, you know flour, bread, it’s almost as bad for you as sugar is because your body turns that into sugar within minutes. And so the optimum and you know, I could go for a long time talking about what you shouldn’t eat. And I want to tell a funny little story here. Because, you know, because I have been fit my whole life. And I often have a lot of other guys wanting to know how to get into shape. And they talked to me about this. And I was with a group of friends at a coffee shop a few years back, and I was once again pontificating on, you know, don’t eat this, do eat that, you know, glycemic index, glycemic load all of that stuff. And one of the guys in the group, who wasn’t himself all that great of shape, but he just stopped me in my tracks. He said, Will, there’s a way easier rule. And so I’m going to repeat it to you because he was absolutely right. It’s really simple. You don’t have to count it. Honestly, you don’t have to worry about all those details. Follow this one simple rule, and you will have a healthy diet. It’s this easy. If it has an ingredients list. Don’t eat it. because it’s a manufactured food. When you look at things like the Atkins diet, the Paleo diet, all that stuff, and they do work. And we’re going to talk a little bit about diets versus diet in a minute. But they do work. Well, the thing that most diets all have in common is their low sugar, low refined grain diets. And that gets into something called the insulin leptin cycle. And this was explored at great length by Dr. Robert Lustig and his best selling book Fat Chance. And if you want to understand this in great greater, greater depth, I strongly recommend you read that book. It’ll take a little bit to get through and Dr. Lustig admits he wrote the book for doctors. So you’re gonna have to stop from time to time to look up some terms and you know, but you can do that and you’ll just figure it out. But we’re gonna talk a little bit about the insulin leptin cycle. Everybody knows what insulin is, your pancreas makes it and It regulates your blood sugar. And we have to have that because high blood sugar is toxic, it can kill you. But it’s something that a lot of people don’t know is that insulin is also the chemical trigger that tells your body to store what you just ate as fat. So if you get a high level of insulin after eating, or what’s called an instant spike, well, that spike is telling your body store those calories as fat. And if you’re eating the industrialized diet, which is saturated with refined grains and sugars, and by the way, sugar is a threshold toxin, it is toxic to the human body. It’s a threshold toxin. And what I mean by a threshold toxin, it’s exactly like alcohol in that respect, you can have a glass of wine a day, you’ll be fine. But everybody knows two bottles of wine a day, it’s going to kill you, sugar’s the same way. The average adult should not be consuming more than three teaspoons per day of sugar. And keep in mind that includes the sugar that comes from the refined grains. So if you’re eating the industrialized diet, if you’re eating food that comes out of a packaging of a box of a bag, if you’re eating fast food, all of that stuff, okay? The average person is taking 18 to 24 teaspoons per day, way past the toxic threshold. And that’s why they’re Fat, Sick and Weak. Now, it’s not their fault. In fact, prior to this madness that we’re currently dealing with that you and I are fighting. I was working on a book and I’m hoping I’m gonna be able to get back to it after we’ve won this fight. And the title of the book was “Your Fat is Not Your Fault”. And the book is an exposition on how the manufactured food industry has set people up to fail. And something I’ve discovered very recently where I have researchers who helped me out with my Friday News Reports and something came across my desk just a couple of days ago. Because I’ve known this for a while, those four food groups or the five food groups or the food pyramid that they teach you in school, it’s utter crap. If you eat like that, you’re going to be fat, sick and week. Well, what I just found out was that the food manufacturers are paying them to spread that information to deceive people into eating their products. So once again, folks, if it has an ingredients list, don’t eat it. It’s that simple. And if you think about it, if you go to your grocery store, and I don’t you know, I go, I want to make this clear, okay, I don’t live at the gym. I don’t have time. I mean, Mark and I are in this fight, we are working 14 hours a day. I’m having a good week in the last couple of three years now when I can get to the gym three times a week for a half hour workout. And sometimes it’s not even that. So you don’t have to live at the gym. You don’t have to buy your food at some Whole Foods Market. You can go to the grocery store, I swear by my food, I go to Walmart to buy my food. But where do I go in the Walmart? Do I go into the aisles where all the manufactured food is? No. I go to the meat section and I go to the produce section. And that’s where I buy my food. And the other argument that I get from people is they say, Why don’t have time to make food from scratch? Well, interestingly enough, there’s a study on this a while back. And they found that the difference between people who cook food from scratch and people who pre prepared food like say take it out of a box and warm it up in terms of preparation was 10 minutes per meal. And that’s all because once you start learning to cook, and by the way, I love cooking, I love food. People say oh, you must not care about. I love food, and I love to cook I love French cooking, especially. Once you learn to cook, though, you get fast at it. And it doesn’t take that long. And so my whole family is like this, we don’t, you know, we don’t eat food, that kind of bag or a box, we prepare our meals from scratch. And my kids are very, very healthy. My daughter who’s now 21, at the age of 12, I think she probably wasn’t eating all that healthy because she was getting a little bit pudgy. And so I had a little talk with her. And I explained to her about everything we’re talking about right now. And she’s not somebody who really likes exercise that much. She does go to the gym once in a while. But she just consciously changed her diet. And by the time she was 14, she was lean slim. She’s an extremely beautiful young lady. And there’s not a shred of excess fat on her. Well, watch because she’s healthy. She eats a healthy diet. And she hardly ever exercises. But remember, I’ve already told you exercise isn’t for weight loss. And maybe that’s where we should go next is talking about what exercise is for.

Dr. Trozzi 31:31
Yeah, I’d love that just you know, when you mentioned about food, you know, I find often ourselves, we were similar. We eat food that looks like it comes from the planet where we grew and evolved. And often, you know, when I get to the, to the checkout, I look at the people’s carts around me I’m shocked by how little food they how few plants or steaks, or you know, corn and apples and just real food that that there is there. And you mentioned, you know, people say, Well, I don’t and I hear that a lot of people I don’t have time to cook. I’m amazed how many people don’t have time to cook. But when they sit down to eat their high sugar processed chemical meal, they got an hour and a half to watch TV.

Will Dove 32:18
Yeah, yeah. Whereas I have the same experience you do, you go to the grocery store, and you look at the person in front of you in their cart, and I’m sitting there thinking, that’s, that’s not a grocery list, that’s a suicide note. You’re gonna go home and eat that crap, that’s gonna kill you.

Dr. Trozzi 32:33
You know, it’s funny that you know, the really cheap fake bread, like they call it Wonder Bread. And it’s funny, some years back I, I would often be fixing up an old house as a hobby on my weekends and, and I would solder copper pipe. And that was the one time I would go to my neighbor’s house for a slice of bread. Because the one use I have for a slice a Wonder Bread is you can stuff it up a pipe that you’re soldering, to block the water so you can heat the joint. And then it just turns to fluff and blows out of the taps. But I wouldn’t think of eating this stuff.

Will Dove 33:08
No, no, don’t eat bread at not and don’t eat whole grain bread either. That’s processed grain too. It’s a slightly healthier than, say white bread, but it’s not good for you. Any type of refined grain is bad because it’s refined. Now whole oats are a wonder food, they’re very healthy. I my wife and I we make our own muesli from whole oats and raisins and sunflower seeds and nuts. So there’s no sugar in it. A whole oats are, they’re a fantastic source of long burning energy, they won’t give you an insulin spike, they’re a great source of fiber. But you know, don’t do if you’re going to do this when you go to the grocery store to get here in Canada we have you’ll find these yellow bags of whole oats. Look for those do not get like steel cut oats, or you know any kind of processed oats when they’re cut them up or chop them out for you. Because that’s just pre processing. It’s just another form of pre processing. And the more you process those oats, the less healthy they are. Eat the whole oats without sugar or anything like that. And that’s a very good healthy thing to eat. But any kind of refined grain No, it’s toxic.

Dr. Trozzi 34:22
So where does, so we need to eat a natural diet, we need the plants, we need to eat meats, we need to avoid all this package factory food. We need to get away from the high carb, high grain, high sugar diet. Still, while we’re still in the subject of nutrition, you know we hear a lot about intermittent fasting benefits to the immune system to telomeres to stem cells. Can you comment on that a little bit so there’s What to eat and then there’s the question of When to eat. Can you can you give us some of your thoughts on that?

Will Dove 34:58
Well, yeah. Actually, I’m really glad you brought that up Mark because I was I think I was getting ahead of us when I was talking. But it’s time to start talking about exercise, because yes, there’s more things we need to cover here with nutrition. Intermittent fasting, by the way, is absolutely fantastic. I have practiced it myself for many years. And there’s very strong science behind this. So let’s talk just briefly, just a little bit of science, talking about what’s happening in the body when we’re aging, it’s not something we completely understand yet. But one thing that we do know is that as we get older, especially as we get very advanced in our years, the cells that you know, our cells are always dying, and they’re being replaced by new cells. If you’re fit and healthy, and you’re 40 years old, a muscle cell is a muscle cell, skin cell is a skin cell, a nerve cell is a nerve cell. But if you’re 80 years old, and you’re nearing the end of your life, when your body makes these new cells to replace the old ones that died, you might not go with a cell that say it half a muscle cell and half a nerve cell. Because the body starts to get confused. The code, the genetic code to create those cells starts to break down. And so because it’s neither one, it doesn’t function as either one. And this is what’s happening a lot in our bodies, as we age, as the cells that are coming in, are not really doing the job they’re supposed to be doing. And that’s eventually going to lead to disease. I mean, that’s kind of almost the underlying factor of disease is that you’ve started having a breakdown in the functions within the cells. And that eventually gets to the point where it’s so expensive, that it’s going to affect the organ, and you’re going to develop some kind of disease from it. So intermittent fasting, the primary benefit to fasting is that it’s going to produce high autophagy. Yes, thank you, that’s where I was going. And autophagy is a process in the cell where basically, it’s flushes out all the crap, and cleans itself out, it’s like, it’s like garbage day, let’s get rid of all that garbage, because there’s always these metabolic processes going on in your cells. And those metabolic cell processes do produce waste products. And if your body is running on sugar, if it’s you know, the cell is functioning all the time, it doesn’t get a chance to clean that out. So if you’re intermittent fasting, then you basically we’re going to continue to have this process of autophagy where you’re cleaning all this up of your cells, and your cells will last longer. You mentioned telomeres, and telomeres are their little snippets on the end of your DNA. And there was for a long time a theory that you can judge somebody’s “biological age” by the length of telomeres, because you lose a little bit of the telomere every time it replicates, every time the DNA replicates. And actually, that’s been discovered to be untrue. Telomeres actually don’t tell us anything about our biological age. But there’s other factors that do. So every – if you can extend the life of the cell, it’s called is for the periodicity of it. So how often the cell has to replace itself. If you can extend that periodicity, you’re going to extend your life, it’s going to take much longer before you get to the point where your cells are no longer doing the job they were supposed to do. And there’s probably nothing better for that than intermittent fasting. So how do I do intermittent fasting? The idea I’m going to talk about and by the way, folks, you if you know me, you know my show, I’m all about telling people the truth. And you saw me do it earlier, when I showed you that photo of me and I said look, that’s a lie. That’s a lie from the fitness industry, you can’t look like that. And if you tried, you’re going to die. Okay, so now we’re going to talk about some more truth. And I’m going to be completely honest about what I do. Because I’m not I’m not a saint, I’m not an aesthetic. I’m not a monk, I don’t have the time to be disciplined 24/7. So the ideal, I would say intermittent fasting schedule is to do it daily. And you’re going to you want to eat in about a six to eight hour window, starting in the morning when you get up. So if you get up and you have your first meal at 8am, you should ideally be eating your last meal somewhere between 2pm and 4pm. And then you just don’t eat again until the next morning. And the reason you do this is because it takes 12 hours on average for your body to burn up all of the sugar. And all of the once again a word is escaping me, the way the body stores sugar, you’d probably know the word Mark – glycogen. Glycogen, thank you. And as you can think of glycogen is just sugar snowballs. Your body is packed the sugar up so you can get it easily later. It takes about 12 hours for your body to burn all that up. And once it burns all that up, now it starts to run the ketones and ketones come from fat. And ketones are actually a much better energy source, especially for your brain than sugar is. And so you’ll go on to the ketones, your body will go into autophagy, it’ll start cleaning the cells out. And so that’s the ideal, but that’s not what I do. And I don’t do that because a lot of us like to snack in the evening, and I’m no different. So I break the rule. I typically don’t eat until about two in the afternoon. And then I’ll have my last meal around eight o’clock at night. So I’m working on eating about a six hour window And that allows me to have a snack after dinner, if I’m sitting here finally having time to sit down and relax, which doesn’t happen very often these days, but every once in a while it does. And so that’s another demonstration. Yes, you, you have to be disciplined, you have to look out for yourself, you have to follow the rules, but you can bend them. And I think that that segues into this comment. I have a lot of conversations with people about how to change their diet. And it’s very frustrating, because sometimes you’re run into those people who say, Well, I’ve switched to whole grain bread. And I’m trying to like, Okay, you’re not, you’re not even in the ballpark, you don’t understand that, that’s not going to do anything. And the reason it’s not going to do anything is this simple rule. And I’ve already given you one simple rule, that first simple rule is, if it’s got an ingredients list, don’t eat it. Well, here’s Rule number two, small changes in your lifestyle will produce small changes in your body. If you want a major change in your body, you have to make a major change in your lifestyle. Changing one little thing in your diet is not going to do it. If you’re not exercising, and you’re eating that industrialized processed food diet, you have to change everything, you know, just giving up cereal, it’s not going to do it, folks, it’s probably not gonna make any difference at all, because you’re still living that sedentary, processed foods lifestyle, You have to change the whole thing. Now, that’s very difficult to do. Now we get into food addiction. Everybody knows about addiction. And you know, obviously, we you know, hear about addiction to illegal drugs, cocaine and anything like that. Sugar is addictive, by the way, in exactly the same way cocaine is. So it’s hard to get off of it once you’re on it. And that takes some work. But if you want to change your diet, the first place to start, especially if you’re eating that processed foods diet is don’t take something out, put something in, and the something you need to put in, is fiber. Because that processed foods diet is almost completely devoid of fiber. There’s almost no fiber in it at all. Now, everybody has been told in school, okay, fiber makes us poop regularly. Well, you know, if you’re faced with that box of doughnuts, do you really care? Probably not. But there’s something much more important that fiber does. It slows the absorption of the food you’ve eaten, which avoids that insulin spike. And that brings me back now to that insulin leptin cycle I started to talk about earlier, and I think we got off topic. So it’s really important to understand this insulin – leptin cycle. Insulin, of course, is the hormone that is released by your pancreas to regulate your blood sugar. And if you have a big hit of sugar, whether it be from sugar, or refined grain or whatever, you’re going to get that insulin spike, and your body’s going to store those calories as fat. But in a normal person, a person who’s getting a healthy diet, here’s what happens, you eat, your body will release a certain amount of insulin, not a huge spike, but you know, a steady stream of it to keep the blood sugar levels down to where they’re safe. And that’s gonna cause a certain amount of small amount of those calories to be sent as lipids to your fat cells to be stored as fat. And as soon as those lipids hit the fat cells, they release a hormone called leptin, we only discovered leptin about 25 years ago, maybe 30 knows late 90s. And leptin sends a signal to your brain, it’s called a satiety signal, which says you’re full, you don’t do anything more stop eating. And it also gives you a burst of energy which makes sense, okay, you just stored some, some fat, you just stored some potential energy in the form of ketones, go burn it off, because if you don’t, and you just keep doing that, we’re just gonna keep getting fatter and fatter and fatter. And that’s gonna lead you to be really unhealthy. And we’ll get into a minute of why the fats are unhealthy, and what kind of fat is unhealthy. So if you have this person who is eating the proper whole foods diet, and they’re getting that insulin comes out, and then it releases the lipids to the fat cells, and that releases leptin, which goes to the brain and gives you a satiety signal that says stop eating. It’s a self regulating cycle. But people who are eating the industrialized food diet, that doesn’t happen. They’re continually hungry, they want to keep eating. Well, why is that? Well, it’s because it’s not their body isn’t releasing leptin. It’s because the brain uses the same chemo receptors for insulin as it does for leptin, and the high insulin levels are blocking the leptin signal. So if you put fiber into your diet, and you slow the absorption of food, and you prevent that insulin spike, now the leptin can get through, and you get that satiety signal that says, Oh, I’m full, I’ll stop eating now. Now, it takes a while to change that. But that’s the very first thing you have to do if you’re eating that industrialized, unhealthy diet, and you want to get off of it. Don’t start by trying to take something out. Start with putting something in – fiber. And I’ve already talked about oats, blueberries, there’s all kinds of good sources of fiber out there, you can just go look them up online and pick out the ones that you like and eat those. But the important thing is have that with every meal, you got to have fiber with every meal, and it should be the first thing you eat, eat the fiber first, then eat the rest of it. And that fiber is going slow, the absorption of that food is going to lower that insulin signal. And now the leptin can get through and your body will start to self regulate.

Dr. Trozzi 45:27
Will, that’s a brilliant insight. And you know, that fits up fits with something that Dr. Christophe Plothe, who you’ve interviewed before on fertility statistics, and I had a pleasure working with him. We’re both steering committee members of the World Council for Health, that he gave a, he gave a presentation called the sugar trap. It’s on my it’s on my site.

Will Dove 45:50
And I did an interview with him on that. And that’s exactly what he’s talking about is what the sugar is doing in the body.

Dr. Trozzi 45:55
Yeah, you guys are on the same page. And he mentioned that, you know, in in the way most people are experiencing this, you know, high sugar, high insulin, that that sugar, that addiction experts are saying it’s eight times as addictive as cocaine.

Will Dove 46:12
Yeah, it is. And once you get hooked on it, it’s really hard to get off of it. And that’s why I tell people, the first thing you have to do is add fiber. Because if you just try to go off the sugar, and we got – I was kind of getting into this before talking about chemicals and chemical addiction, all foods are chemicals. If you take an orange to a laboratory and ask them to break it down into its constituent chemicals, you’ll find that there’s 225 chemicals in that orange. So when you eat food, you’re ingesting chemicals, and your body gets used to certain chemicals, you are literally addicted to the diet you are eating and if you’re trying to change it overnight, just go cold turkey onto a healthy diet, I guarantee you’re gonna fail because you’re gonna go through withdrawal, big time, you have to wean off of it. You do this slowly. So you start by adding the fiber. And then the next thing I tell people to do is okay, identify the things you’re eating regularly, that you know are really unhealthy for you. And don’t start with the thing that’s most unhealthy. Start with what’s going to be easiest for you to give up. Okay, so what you should and you have to do this slowly, gradually getting everybody time. I recommend each stage of this process should at minimum be three weeks, and preferably six. So you introduced fiber, three to six weeks, that’s all you did. That’s all you change that you start started eating fiber with every meal. Okay, now look for that one thing, you know, you’re eating that you can give up, you know, it’s not healthy for you, but you don’t care about it that much. Okay, get that out of your diet, three to six weeks of that, then look for the next thing on the list. And as you take those unhealthy foods out and start replacing them with the healthy whole foods. You know, the meat, the protein sources, the vegetables, a small amount of fruit. And I want to make a little side note here, don’t drink fruit juice. I don’t care if it says there’s no sugar added. fruit sugar fructose is extremely toxic. It’s even worse than table sugar. So if you eat an orange, well, that’s fine. Like I said, it’s a threshold toxin. You got one orange worth of fructose. If you drink a glass of juice, what’s that, like eight oranges worth? And your body didn’t have to work to digest it, the hit of fructose is going to hit your liver. It’s incredibly toxic. It’s going to cause liver disease, you might as well become an alcoholic. So you know parents who think they’re doing their kids a service by giving them a fruit juice? No, you might as well – and by the way, once again, to tell you the truth. What am I drinking right here? Well, I’m drinking a Diet Coke is are the artificial sweeteners in this good for me? No. But they’re not nearly as bad for me as sugar. And I said I’m not a monk. I’m not an aesthetic. I don’t, I don’t have a perfect diet. I like Diet Coke. Okay, so I’ll have one every once in a while, that’s fine. But if you’re giving your kids so if you’re if you’re giving your kids fruit juice, well, you might as well be giving them Coca Cola, because you’re giving them just as nasty of a hit of sugar. Do not drink fruit juice. In fact, try not to drink your calories at all. It’s really easy to do, it’s easy to drink your calories to drink hundreds and hundreds of them every day. If you’re not watching what you’re putting in your body. The other thing you should not drink past the age of 25 is cow’s milk. I do, I do think that cow’s milk is actually good for kids, especially if you’ve given them high fat milk like 3% whole milk, because children need the fats to do proper development of their nervous system. But by the age of 25, our nervous system in our brain have completely developed and at that point in time you should cut the cow’s milk out one because it contains lactose which of course is another form of sugar, but also the because all the hormones that they give to the cows. It’s very high in estrogen and it can give you cancer. So don’t drink milk. It’s bad for you. Arnold Schwarzenegger was right ‘milk is for babies’.

Dr. Trozzi 49:57
So, I’m going to do kind of a Will Dove, which is, you always do a great job with all of us Docs and scientists, you kind of recap things and then jump for the next thing. So you know, on the subject of nutrition, and correct me – today, you’re the expert I am the journalist. Get away from refined food, get away from artificial foods, get away from a high sugar diet, make sure that when you are eating, even foods that are high in carbohydrate, make sure you’re taking fiber with it, to sort of buffer that release of insulin into a slow regular thing. And then intermittent fasting. In other words, it’s great to eat and eat really good, healthy food, but it’s also good to spend some time hungry. And that’s a time when your body does house cleaning, cleaning debris, cleaning out crop, cleaning out cancers before they develop, and allows the body to do a lot of its own internal work Am I Am I getting that?.

Will Dove 50:57
That’s an excellent summary, Mark and the take away, folks, from everything we’ve talked about for the last I don’t know how long I’ve been here now. 30 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever. Remember, these simple, three simple things to take away from this. One, if it has an ingredients list, don’t eat it, Two, if you’re trying to get off of that diet, start by adding fiber, not trying to take things out. And Three, if you can do it, yeah, start practicing intermittent fasting. Because it’s going to do wonderful things for cleaning out your cells and extending your life and making you healthier. Yeah, so you don’t have to count calories, you don’t have to know about glycemic load and glycemic index and all that science-y stuff. You don’t need to do any of that. Just follow those three, simple rules.

Dr. Trozzi 50:59
And as you pointed out, intermittent fasting can be as simple as, for a lot of us when you get up in the morning, skip the breakfast, skip the morning eating, do your hydration time drink a lot of water, I think you can even get away with like a black coffee, if you need a little caffeine to start the day —

Will Dove 51:56
— you can have coffee, if you’re fasting, that’s fine, as long as you’re not putting sugar in it. In fact, you can even have coffee with high fat cream in it. Just don’t put sugar in.

Dr. Trozzi 52:05
Okay, and then start your eating later in the day, give yourself a six to eight hour window during which you do all your eating and then stop.

Will Dove 52:13
Right. And for people who are just starting out with intermittent fasting, I recommend you ease into it you start out by eating in a 12 hour window. Because you know without realizing a lot of people are at a 16 hour eating window they start eating the moment they get up and they they’re still snacking just before they go to bed. So for a lot of people 12 hours is going to be a challenge to start with. So find your starting point, everybody’s different. Don’t compare yourself to other people. And this is one of the lessons I’ve learned in the gym over the years is, it doesn’t matter how fit and strong you are. There’s always somebody who’s fitter and stronger. So don’t compare yourself to other people. You compare yourself to where you were a month ago, a year ago. And if you’re better if you’re doing better, that’s a win.

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